Category Archives: Handloading Questions

20ga Schrifle non-sabot slug

“Schrifle” info updated – October 20,2017.

Once again, it turns out–BIGGER is BETTER the new 20ga SCHRIFLE: “NEOTEC COPPER 365gr” bore size, non-sabot slug.

The facts speak for them selves as seem in the accompanying photos. Look at the real differences between the new 20ga Schrifle: NeoTec Copper 365gr, bore size 62 caliber, non-sabot slug and the industry standard 45 caliber sabot projectile. The first picture shows the actual REAL difference between a 62 caliber and the 45 caliber slug.  The 26% overall larger diameter of the NeoTec Copper 62 caliber slug vs. a 45 caliber slug is easy to see. The ratio of one to the other will remain the same at any magnification the picture is viewed at.

For comparison purposes the next photo shows a 1974 Kennedy .50 cent piece; next to a NeoTec Copper 365gr slug that was fire into a ballistic gelatin block from between 45 and 50 yards away. That range duplicates about 70% of most deer taken with a slug gun. This NeoTec Copper 365gr slug as shown, expanded to 1 3/16 inches while retained 83% of its total weight, now  at 302  grains.

“BIGGER has turned out to be Really BETTER”


The “NeoTec Copper 365gr

The New 365gr  NeoTec Copper slug is the newest slug in the TarHunt 20ga Schrifle series. It is a high performance, full expanding, copper slug at 1800fps. It is flying at the same velocity as other popular sabot rounds, but it weights a full 100+ grains more weight!

Due to the difference in the cost of the Alv alloy used for the Schrifle 270gr Raptor Alv Slug VS the pure 365 gr NeoTec Copper alloy, required for the rapid expanding, there will be a 10% increase in production costs for the 365gr NeoTec Copper slug.

The all new NeoTec Copper 20ga Schrifle slug, weighting 365 grains at 1800fps will be stabile thru all known 20gauge twist rates. The TarHunt NeoTec Copper slug is a full performance, bore size slug, and is on track to be largest diameter, heaviest, fastest, full expanding of all the copper slugs in the industry. While retaining as much as 85% of its original weight when used on thin skin big game. The bore size NeoTec Copper 365ga slug has the uniqueness feeling recoil and the most torque of all the 20ga slugs offered by the industry. 

The 20ga Schrifle NeoTec Copper  slug will also qualify as a “Green” non-toxic projectile for the areas that require a non-toxic slug.  The current trajectory data for the 20ga Schrifle NeoTec Copper 365gr slug has been added below, next to the Raptor Alv series data so a comparison can be made. You may be surprised by the heavier slug. Only a 2″ trajectory arc, either above or below,  you aiming point, thru 150 yards when zero at the proper yardage!


GOOD NEWS

Hunters owing a older made rifled barrel with either a 1-26 or a 1-28 twist rate, the 270gr Raptor, has shown good accuracy in side 140 yards. This combination is certainly worth trying if your interested in  high performance ammo USING AN OLDER twist rate  rifled barrel.

Ballistic data is now showing a 270gr Alv Raptor HP @ 1975+fps appears to be the heaviest weight slug useable in the 2000fps range. This slug is 30grains heavier than the first released 240 grain Schrifle, but at about the same velocity.


Thank You

Thanks for your interest in the  20ga.”Schrifle”  series of non-sabot slug round. All orders until further notice will be shipped directly from TarHunt. The webmaster has installed RED  “buy now” tab on the opening home page as well as a normal ordering format in the ammo section under the hunting ammo tab. Please note the H&R 960 has a 1-35 twist rate. See the special alert posted near the end of this page and in the check out area.

Don’t be lured into thinking the 20ga Schrifle round is any where near as Consistence as a center rifle with a velocity of 2400+fps at 200 yards. This round is very accurate and you can learn to shoot it a longer distances, but as velocity fades away, wind drift that ONCE was measured in inches can easily become a foot or even feet, past 150 yards! The non-sabot 20ga Schrifle round typically produces 12% less serious flyers than any other current sabot-discarding production round.

So far the feed back from 20ga Schrifle customers has been very positive. Most shooters that have provided TarHunt with feed back are saying the 20ga Schrifle round is the most consistenly accurate slug they have ever fired. Some of the groups I have fired using the TarHunt Mountaineer RSG-20ga have been well under 1 inch at 100 yards. A fair number of 220 Savage shooters are touching holes at both 50 & 100 yards with very little change in impact. I have received feed back from 3 different Savage 220 and one Ithaca DeerSlayer owners who have fired 3 shot groups, under 2″ at 150 yards!

After talking to over (300) Savage 220 owners since November 1st 2016; it has become obvious that NOT all of the Savage barrels are truly SAAMI quality barrels. Some barrels are producing average slug gun groups, including the 4-8 inch flyers, with any make of sabot ammo. For this reason, if there is enough interest; TarHunt is considering offering a (button rifled) SAAMI spec factory replacement barrels for the Savage 220 bolt action slug gun.


Calculated trajectory:  Current indications show the 265gr & 270gr Raptor Alv high performance slugs  @ 1975fps may be the heaviest weight slug useable in the 1900+fps range. The 265gr & 270gr share the same ballistic data and shoot a slight bit flatter and ONLY has a little more energy than the 260gr. Data uses a 150 yds zero.

Range-yards Velocity-fps Energy-ft/lbs Trajectory-inches
0 1975 2338 -1.45
50 1730 1794 +2.26
100 1509 1365 +3.07
125 1410 1191  +2.09
150 1325 1044 0.0
175 1238  919  -3.31
 200 1168  818 -8.07

 


Calculated trajectory: 260gr Raptor Alv high performance slug @2025fps is the only slug above the 2000fps mark but in comparison to the 265gr & 270gr slug there is so little difference it is not worth looking for a few more fps. Data uses a 150yd zero.

Range-yards Velocity-fps Energy-ft/lbs Trajectory-inches
0 2025 2367 -1.45
50 1776 1820 +2.10
100 1551 1388 +2.86
125 1447 1209  +1.97
150 1330 1035     0.0
175 1269 929  -3.15
 200 1194 823   -7.65

 


Calculated trajectory:  In  comparing, the 365gr NeoTec Copper @1800fps to the 265gr & 270gr Raptor Alv slug @1975 fps; there is a noticeable difference in all areas, especially down range. The increased weigh makes it a much better choice for hunting big game.       

“Why does the 365gr NeoTec Copper slug use a 130yd zero when the 270gr Raptor Alv slug uses a 150 yard zero”?             Notice the trajectory’s number highlighted at 50, 100, 150, and 200 yards.  That means that for the first 150 yards you have a total of a 4 inch maximum variation  in your trajectory curve. In the heat of the battle that means hold center and shoot, no guessing. But look at the 200yd mark you say. Exactly my point, at 200yds all you have to do it to lay your horizontal crosshair right on top the back bone a squeeze the trigger. The 12″ of drop will place your shot in the heart/lung area. No guessing just a quick way of managing  200 yards with a good slug round that has the energy to get the job done.

Range-yards Velocity-fps Energy-ft/lbs Trajectory-inches
0 1800 2650 -1.45
50 1618 2121 +2.10
100 1410 1612 +2.14
130 1304 1377     0.0
150 1239 1244  -2.40
175 1169 1107  -6.54
 200 1110 980   -12.70

 


Available in the 20ga Schrifle™”series:  the 270gr Raptor Alv slugs for $45.00 and the 365gr NeoTec Copper slugs for $50.00, plus UPS ground shipping. Both will come packed in a 10 rounds reusable snap lock clear plastic box. Finally 10 rounds of the same lot number, slugs, in the same box.

From  Oct-1 thru how ever long they lastTarHunt will release a 6-ROUND SAMPLE BOX, your choice of a of the 20gr Schrifle series: 270gr Raptor Alv  or the NeoTec Copper 365gr slug rounds in a generic 6-round box.     The price is $28.50  for the 270gr Raptor Alv and $32.50 for the 365gr NeoTec Copper, in a sample 6- round box +ups.

TarHunt can be reached at: 570-784-6368 (9am-4pm) or info@tarhunt.com


Schrifle Frequently Asked Questions

What is the 20ga “Schrifle”?

The 20ga Schrifle™ Raptor Alv is a 270gr @1975fps High Performance non-sabot full bore size slug for rifled barrels. The 20ga Schrifle™ Neotec™ Copper 365gr (green) bore size slug @1800fps is a heavy hitter, max expanding slug with excellent weight retention. The 20ga, non-sabot, Schrifle™ rounds typically produces 12% less serious flyers than any other current sabot-discarding production round.

The 20ga Schrifle™ round is the 3rd generation of a hunting slug design and is the ongoing result of over 5 years of research & development. The “out of the box thinking” that culminated into this unique design and was only made possible by the advancements in precision machining, plastic development and new molding techniques.  Most importantly, the quality control and consistency of the new gun powders over the last decade has vastly improved.

The 1st generation of sabot slug was developed in the early 1980’s for police use. In the late 1980’s it was purchased & slightly redesigned by Bob Sowash (BRI) Company. Then bought out by Winchester & Federal and re-introduced for big game hunting with rifled barrels for the 1991/1992 hunting season.

The 2nd Generation:   The slug revolution took place over the next four years, (1993 thru 1996), by the industry in an effort to catch up with the accuracy of the TarHunt RSG-12 slug gun design introduced in 1992.  The RSG-12ga would later on would be picked by Field & Stream Magazine (2009) as one of the 50 best guns ever designed, even when compared to the world’s best rifle designs. Even now, after 30 years THCR still remains the “World’s Leader in Slug Guns Accuracy”(1987-2917)”.

The 2nd generation sabot type (current production) slug round just doesn’t work for the kind of accuracy expected from rifles. The sabot slug round is a placebo at best and is the industry way to give you the illusion that rifle like accuracy is available from slug guns using sabot ammo.

Ten years ago TH started thinking about all the issues with current sabot type slug ammo the conclusion was that the industry, had pretty much, already exhausted all concepts of using sabot technology developed from the early 1980’s thru 2015. The Lightfield Hybred series using a sabot that is keyed fast to the projectile, still remains the best and most consistent of the current sabot designs.

The “Schrifle”™ design slug is the 3rd generation utilizing a bore size, NON-SABOT hunting slug.  This new slug concept uses out of the box thinking to correct a number of problems that plagued the first two generations of sabot slugs

It was decided that the 20 gauge would be best gauge choice for this “out of the box thinking” attempt to correct the issues with sabot ammo. After 4 years of ongoing research the non-sabot generation, 20ga “Schrifle™”, round was released in 2015 in an attempt to make an “accurate” short range rifle out of a shot gun. It will take a little time for the 20ga “Schrifle” round to be tried in the wide variety of 20ga rifled barrels configurations that were produced over the last 35+ years. Although, it can be fired in any of the pre-2000 20ga RIFLED BARRELS, accuracy may vary greatly.

Accuracy Details

Prior to the year 2000 SAAMI standardization, there were a number of custom slug gun makers, as well as slug gun manufacturers, that made rifled slug gun barrels in all different diameters. In 2015 I decided to error on the side of caution, with the first 240ga loading, and offer a round that was not as aggressive as it could be.

NOTE:   The introductory round was a (240gr) slug that turned out to be not truly stable past 130 yards in some rifled barrels. The current production slug has been updated to a shorter/heavier 265gr/270gr configuration. All weight of slugs will be stable when fired thru a 1-23 or 1-24 twist rate  even out to 200yards and beyond. The 270gr slugs are now showing reasonable accuracy when fired thru a 1-26 & 1-28tr out thru 140 yds. Only testing your barrel can tell for sure.

The new 20ga Schrifle: NeoTec Copper 365gr @1800fps round will work thru all known 20ga twist rates and is by far the best choice for deer hunting of the 20ga Schrifle series of slugs. It is a very accurate slug, when fired in a SAAMI diameter barrel,  (green) maximum expansion slug with a high percentage of weigh retention.

Wind Drift Information

WIND DRIFT ISSUES*:  Another way of saying slug movement away from your point of aim. It is caused by the wind putting pressure on the projectile while in flight. It pertains to all rifles, slug guns, muzzle loaders and anything that moves thru the air. The effect is more dramatic on slow moving projectiles under 2000fps!  “It amounts to the “TOTAL AMOUNT OF TIME and the DIRECTION –the wind has to push on the projectile!”

A head, tail, or cross wind, will affect all posted wind drift and drop figures. Any combination thereof can even move a slug in a diagonal or vertical direction. Head wind or tail wind also has a dramatic effect on the amount of drop seen when firing on an open firing range verses that of actual hunting conditions. With all of these wind drift variables it is obvious that ANY built in flyers (up as high as 12%) cannot be tolerated!

As you can see it ONLY takes a 10MPH cross wind to pretty much double the amount of win drift   for each   additional 50yds down range with guns under 2000fps. That’s why slug guns and most muzzle loaders CANNOT truly be compared to a rifle.   Just by adding 800fps to a rifle round (@2800fps) you will have Aproxamently 75% less drift than a slug gun. That means the rifle will have  Aproxamently 4” of drift, instead of 16” of drift at 200yds, like the slug gun.

DRIFT   @   50yds     +.08”        DRIFT   @  100yds    +3.6″                                           DRIFT   @  150yds    +8.4″        DRIFT   @  200yds   +15.8″                

(*These wind drift figures are based on a steady 10mph cross wind).

The average wind speed during Nov-Jan (the normal deer hunting season) is 17 to 23 MPH; guess what the wind drift is at that wind speed?      “Considering all of these wind issues; less built in flyers in the ammo is the key to achieving the best down range accuracy when shooting a slug gun”.  “First eliminate the cause of most of the flyers, (the sabot). Then use a slug that actually fits the bore diameter of a 20 gauge rifled barrel”.   

“Then and only then can you learn how to shoot a slug gun, at long ranges, in the wind”.

Check Your Twist Rate

If you are unsure of your twist rate have it check by a gun smith or try and check it yourself

CHECKING TWIST RATE IN A REMOVABLE BARRELS:

You need a cleaning rod long enough to go thru the entire length of the barrel. Insert the cleaning rod thru the barrel from the chamber end of the barrel. NOW screw on a 20ga brush on the end of the rod. Pull the brush into the muzzle of the barrel until it starts to turn/rotate the rod. Put a piece of masking tape on the rod flush with the chamber end of the barrel. Mark the exact point where the rod comes out of the chamber end by using a black dot. Pull the rod/brush thru the barrel only until the dot you placed of the tape makes ONE COMPLETE revolution, STOP!  Measure the distance from the mark you put on the tape, to the point against the chamber end of the barrel. The distance between the mark and the barrel, in inches, should be very close to the twist rate of your barrel.

CHECKING THE TWIST RATE IN BARRELS FAST TO AN ACTION/RECEIVER:

If the barrel cannot be removed from the receiver, insert the rod thru from the muzzle end. Screw the brush onto the rod thru the open breach/action area. Pull the brush into the chamber end of the barrel until the rod starts to turn/rotate. Put a piece of masking tape on the rod flush with the muzzle end of the barrel using a black dot on the tape, where the rod sticks out of the muzzle end of the barrel. Pull the rod/brush thru the barrel only until the mark you placed of the tape makes ONE COMPLETE revolution, STOP!   Measure the distance from the mark you put on the tape, to the point against the muzzle end of the barrel.  The distance between the mark and the muzzle end, in inches, should be very close to the twist rate of your barrel.

Notes on Slower Twist Rates

Over the years common twist rates for 20ga rifled barrels, (Pre 2000 barrels) were 1-26, 1-28, 1-34, 1-35. And a number of those barrels appear to have usually big bores to perform well with the SAAMI diameter 20ga “Schrifle” slugs.  Examples are early Rem 870 & 11-87, Ithaca, some Hastings and Mossberg 20ga rifled barrels are listed as a 1-35 twist and were designed for the old Foster/Rifled Lead Slug.  The all new 20ga SchrifleNeoTec™ Copper 365 grains, @ 1800+fps range, and will be stable thru all known 20gauge twist rates that are close to SAAMI bore diameter specifications…   But the 20ga Schrifle™ NeoTec™ slug, as a SAAMI Specification at (.6195ths) still may be too small in diameter to shoot well from some of the older rifled barrels!

Current twist rates advertised for slug guns.

The TarHunt RSG-20ga Mountaineer,  Savage 220 bolt action, The new Ithaca 20ga DeerSlayer II & III, T/C Encore-20ga barrel, Winchester 20ga SX-3, Browning 20ga Silver- Model (only) are all listed as having a 1-24tr. Currently the Bennelli M2 20ga has a 1-28 twist rate. The last info I could find on Hastings 20ga rifled barrels listed the barrels as a 1-24tr but I don’t think any of those twist rates barrels ever made it to market? All the Hasting replacement barrels are most likely 1-26tr.

All 1-26tr & 1-28tr are worth testing for accuracy with the 20ga Schrifle™ Raptor™ 270gr thru 140 yards.     As far as I can find out, Mossberg is the only one still making 1-35tr rifled 20ga barrel and would need the 20ga Schrifle™ NeoTec™ Copper 365gr to fully stabilize in that slow twist rate.

There appears to have been very little (accurate records) have been kept of twist rates over the years. You can get difference answers if you call the same source more than once.       “Too be sure you must have your barrel by a gunsmith”!

Remington’s 20 gauge slug gun were produced in various twist rates over time. Even after the SAAMI standardization of slug gun barrel specifications in year 2000; I am not sure what twist rate they are using in the current 20 gauge Rem 11-87 & Rem 870 slug guns. “I have attempted to contact Remington, the head shotgun production engineer, a number of times just about their post 2000 slug guns with no response”. Although all of the Remington rifled barrels ever made should shoot with the new 20ga Schrifle™ NeoTec™ Copper 365gr slugs if the barrel are close enough to SAAMI bore specifications.

Bad News for H&R 960 owners:

Even though the 20gr Schrifle™ NeoTec™ Copper 365gr slug will stabilize in the 1-35 twist rate of the H&R; the bore size is still well over the size to be to shoot a SAAMI diameter slug with good accuracy.  Actually testing your barrel is the only way to know for sure. After 50+ years, if I have learned one thing, when it comes to rifled barrels- “there are NO certainties”.

I have clarified, from the guns designer, that H&R 960 20 gauge slug guns were indeed a (1-35tr) and were designed for the old Foster/rifled lead slugs. The barrel bore sizes are very large by todays SAAMI standards. The bore (on top of the rifling) is .618ths and the grove (bottom of the rifling) is .625ths. Current SAAMI specifications:       The MAXAMUM diameters for 20ga rifled barrels has a (.609ths – .611ths) bore (on top of the rifling) and a (.618ths – .620ths) grove (bottom of the rifling). 

That means the H&R barrel with a .618ths bore diameter (on top of the rifling) is a full .007ths bigger diameter (on top of the rifling) than it should be.  That means the Schrifle™ slug at .619ths in diameter is only .001ths bigger than the top of the rifling in the H&R barrel and is likely to slip, causing very poor accuracy.

Accuracy Note: With that big a bore only the Lightfield Hybred sabot is designed to adjust to that big a bore diameter, while maintaining proper RPM’S for stabilization, because of its patent key-on sabot design.

That means a 20ga Schrifle round, made at the larger diameter for the H&R barrel, and would certainly cause high pressure problems if it ever found its way into a SAAMI barrel. TarHunt WOULD NEVER release a slug bigger in diameter than the current SAAMI specifications. The only solution for the H&R owners is to have a new SAAMI specification barrel installed.

Visual Aids: 20ga Schrifle Performance

Look at this youtube video of a 8 inch square, 18 inch long, 21 pound gelatin block, (normally used to test rifle bullets). It was hit with the new, reduced load, 20ga Schrifle slug. The slug is a full bore size 62cal, 240gr. slug fired from a full 40 yards away using a 1-23tr. The lower your twist rate number (1-23tr) the more RPM”S the slug has to aid in cutting a bigger wound channel.

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The gel block reacts to the impact of the 20ga “Schrifle” by producing 9-10 different severe shock  waves patterns as the slug moves thru the 17 inches of the gel block! If you look closely you can see the Raptor HP design  separating into 3 peddles, about 120 degrees apart. The peddles then penetrated out ward for Approximately 7 inches.  At the end of the video the 21 pound block is stood up on end and is flipped off the table. The multi-shock waves, seen here in this video, of a 20ga “Schrifle”  moving thru this gel block is a good representation of the wound channel trauma produced by a 20ga “Schrifle” slug going thru a 16″ thick Deer size animal!

Hi Randy…

I have a Lee Loader II and have been reloading 2 3/4 Rem shells with Clays and 7 1/2 oz shot. I just bought two packages of Lightfield Commander IDS 1 1/16 oz Sabot slugs. My question is can I reload these slugs with my shells and equipment? I’m firing them through a brand new Mossberg 500 24″ rifled barrel! Oh…I’m using Rem primers too. Thanks Chris.

Chris,
Loading slugs with a shot shell loader is do-a-able. The powder charged used must be reduced at least 10%, from the amount used for loading with the roll crimp process, while setting up the shot shell press for slug loading.

It may have to stay that low all of the time. I cannot explain, in this format, the crude ways you have at home to guess at what pressures you are developing using this reloading method. A real pressure gun is the only way that you are ever sure about how much pressure you are developing. That’s why every loading manual is so adamant about not ever changing ANY THING in a recipe for loading shot shells at home.

The real trick is come up with a final OAL shell that is fully crimped, generating the proper pressure on the nose of the slug, but not enough pressure that you start to collapse the pressure wad at a usable pressure at the velocity desired.

Subject
: Hand loading slugs.  Reloading Equipment.

This is an outline of the normal tooling used in the roll crimping process for sabot slug rounds.

Loading slugs, sabot or not, is no harder then loading metallic
rounds but it does require different loading tools.

If you are loading new 12 ga. shells all you need is:

1) A small table mounted drill press. Around 75.00 from
Sears or some such company.
2) A shot shell roll crimper to roll crimp close the end of the
shell over the slug. Starting from 30.00 (at Ballistic Products) up to near 200.00 for any industrial grade roll crimper for factory looking crimps.
3) Powder scale.
4) Shot Shell hull vice to hold the shell from rotating while you
roll the crimp the mouth of the hull shut with the drill press.
Cost $40.00

Most of these tool are a onetime purchase.

Check out the Ballistic Products web page for most
of these tools. TarHunt web site does sell the Lightfield Commander IDS sabot slugs in both a ten pack or by bulk.
570-784-6557
Hope this helps,
Randy

Hello Randy, I have some Commander IDS 465 gr Slugs for hand loading.

Do you have an other powder recommendation since they have discontinued Solo 1250?

You can use Green Dot powder (Blue Dot is to slow), to load the 465 grain Commander in a 2 3/4″ Cheddite and Fiocchi hull.  Start at 24.0 grains and go NO MORE than 27.0 grains, that IS A MAX LOAD for a velocity of1400-1550ft/sec. at an OAL of aproxamently 2.425 inches.
In the pressure gun 27.0 gr. generated 1510ft/sec. at 10,900psi. and at 70 degrees temperature. It is also a good cold weather load.

Roll crimp the OAL of the case down until the slug itself cannot rattle if you shake it really hard but don’t overdo it and compress the pressure wad. Just so it cannot rattle when shaken hard.